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Trinity
Apr 9, 2024 14:41:11 GMT
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Post by Adaeze on Apr 9, 2024 14:41:11 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos.
I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not?
Is it just YWYH and Yeshua?
I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me.
Your input will be highly appreciated.
Thank you
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Post by beckywc on Apr 9, 2024 18:20:09 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos. I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not? Is it just YWYH and Yeshua? I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me. Your input will be highly appreciated. Thank you Yes, the Holy Spirit is the third person of the godhead. In Ephesians 1:13-14, Paul clearly states that we are sealed in Christ through the Holy Spirit; and further in Ephesian 4:30, Paul states you can grieve the Holy Spirit; and when you read Galatians, Paul speaks of the fruits of the Holy Spirits: love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control these are all attributes of God.
I hope this helps, there are many scriptures that speak on the Holy Spirit and His function in the life of the believer.
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Post by The Messiah 2030 Project on Apr 11, 2024 22:33:42 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos. I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not? Is it just YWYH and Yeshua? I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me. Your input will be highly appreciated. Thank you While we have our opinions on the topic, this topic is currently out of scope of The Messiah 2030 Project. While it is a fascinating topic and could result in countless hours of profitable discussion, we are charged with revealing the Messianic timeline and it is difficult to connect that topic to our current objectives, and no matter how we answer your question it would only serve distract from our message and work. We do look forward to the day in which the Messiah will answer that for us all in much greater clarity, hopefully as soon as we might expect. |
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Post by midnightwatcher on Apr 13, 2024 6:25:56 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos. I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not? Is it just YWYH and Yeshua? I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me. Your input will be highly appreciated. Thank you To use an analogy to illustrate the Triune nature of One God, let’s consider a star. When we observe our sun, for example, we observe three distinct things: light, heat, and a flame. Yet, the light is the sun. The heat is the sun. The flame is the sun. Although these three are distinct, does Earth orbit three stars, or only one? Likewise, the Father is called God in Scripture (Philippians 2:11), and so is the Son (John 1:1,14; Colossians 2:9), and so is the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). Even though there is a clear distinction, there is only One God. In a book titled “The Jewish Trinity” by Yoel Natan, the author demonstrates how Moses and other Bible writers wrote strikingly and often about the Triune nature of God and about the deity of the Messiah. In his review, Roswell T. Bonovitz, Professor Emeritus of Biblical Languages, points out how “Gravity was always there, but it took a Newton to discover it. Lightning was always electrical. It took a Franklin to recognize it, and a Steinmetz to tame it, and an Edison to light up our lives with it. The fact is now indisputable that the Jews in Jesus’ day believed in the Triune God. The proof was always there in the Bible. Many theologians even suspected it. But it took Yoel Natan to dig it out and prove it beyond dispute... our Hebrew forebears understood and worshipped the Holy Trinity as clearly as the writers of the Apostles’ Creed... All the evidence has been there staring us in the face for two millennia.” And indeed, it has As Deuteronomy 6:4 declares, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” Literally translated, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh and our Elohim are a united one.” The Old Testament demonstrates a plurality in the Godhead that is a united One, and this distinction is reaffirmed in the New Testament: “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him” (John 14:23). Feel free to read The Jewish Trinity Sourcebook here: www.yoel.info/sourcebook_2003_1_of_7.pdf |
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Trinity
Apr 21, 2024 18:37:00 GMT
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Post by midnightwatcher on Apr 21, 2024 18:37:00 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos. I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not? Is it just YWYH and Yeshua? I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me. Your input will be highly appreciated. Thank you As an addendum to my comment above I wanted to point to something very clear: John 14:16,26, "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, so that He may be with you forever... the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you." There are clearly THREE persons identified by the Messiah Himself in the Gospel of John that are each distinct and work TOGETHER: 1. "I will ask" is Jesus 2. "The Father" 3. "another Helper" - the "Spirit of truth" who "will be in you" (v17) We saw this before already when Jesus was baptized, and the Spirit descended upon Jesus (Matt. 3:16-17). Jesus was standing in the Jordan River and when the Holy Spirit descended and settled upon Him "a voice CAME FROM HEAVEN, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'" Three distinct persons all identifed for us, not by the Catholic Church, but by the Word of God. These three are One Lord (Deut. 6:4). The fact that the universe itself exists as a “Trinity” of time, space and matter -- which are themselves comprised of past-present-future, length-width-depth, and solid-liquid-gas -- speaks volumes imho. Scientific discoveries have demonstrated that the nature of the universe exists as a “Trinity of Trinities.” Are these the “fingerprints” of God? I say YES and anyone denying the Triune nature of God as revealed to us in the full counsel of Scripture is flirting with heresy. |
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lucy
New Member
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Post by lucy on Apr 21, 2024 22:44:10 GMT
I strive to remain humble so that YHWH continues to give me grace. We should all be aware that we might be incorrect on some things.
I would like to add that in Deut 6 the Hebrew for one is "echad", which can mean unity of several. It is not the word that would be used for singular one. The same word echad is used in Genesis to say that Adam knew Eve and they became one (echad), which meant a unity, because they did not turn into the same person.
This could also be a misinterpretation on my part. Let's keep our thoughts open to others while we share in this wonderful open forum 🤗
HalleluYah!
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Trinity
Apr 21, 2024 23:03:42 GMT
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Post by midnightwatcher on Apr 21, 2024 23:03:42 GMT
Yes, echad is a unified One. That word was inspired by the Spirit for a reason.
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FX
Junior Member
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Posts: 95
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Post by FX on Apr 22, 2024 5:04:43 GMT
Bonjour Midnightwatcher, Nice to see you here!  For whatever it is worth, here are a few thoughts about the issue at hand. Actually, the concept of a Tri-Une Elohim is found in the first two verses of the Bible. The first verse sheds light on the Father (Elohim) and the Son, the Aleph Tav (את), the First and the Last. (As a side note, it is very interesting to note that the first verse of the Bible is made of 7 words and that Aleph Tav appears as the fourth word (pointing to the first coming of Messiah, year 4000) and reappears in the sixth word (pointing to his second coming, year 6000, to reunite hevean and earth). The Ruach or Spirit of Elohim appears in the second verse of Genesis : “darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters”. The biblical faith is strictly monotheistic. Yahweh is Echad:One. There is never any mention in Scripture of three distinct deities, of which the Son himself would be one, alongside the Father and the Spirit! Yeshua never put himself forward as an individual; he always proclaimed the reign of the Father and the imminent outpouring of the Spirit. The New Covenant writings do not teach that Yeshua was a god in the manner of Greek paganism (half-human, half-divine). Yeshua is Yahweh. God is fully incarnate in the historical person of Yeshua, and the Spirit actualizes his active presence. People get confused about the issue of the trinity (a better word would be Tri-unity) because, there are many heresies’out there, coming from paganism… The notion of three distinct gods (cf. the heresy of Tri-theism, the belief that three divine principles form a triad where the Father is one God, the Son is another God and the Spirit is yet another God) does not exist in Scripture. Nor Modalism, where a single God manifests Himself in three different modes (sometimes as Father, sometimes as Son, sometimes as Spirit), nor Unitarianism (which holds that only the Father is God, and that the Son is the closest man to God, or His prophet, but is not God). This heresy has its roots in another heresy, called ,Arianism, where God is divine with a human Son possessing a measure of divinity. As we can see from the first two verses of Scripture that reveal the Son, Elohim and Ruach Elohim, God is One/Ehad and triune (tri-unity). There is only one being who is God with three distinct entities, or persons if you will. Incidentally, it's very interesting to note that the numerical value of the letter aleph (א) - which represents God - is not just 1 but also 111 (1+1+1), since it contains within it the value of the letters that make up his full name, aleph (which is spelled aleph, lamed and pé [אלף] = 80+30+1 = 111). This is further confirmed by the letters bet, resh and aleph that form the word bara (create - which is the second word in Scripture, but also found in the word Bereishit. The verb bara is uniquely associated with Yahweh in all Scripture): the first letter of bet refers to the word ben (Son), the resh to the word rouah (Breath, Spirit) and the letter aleph, to the word Abba (Father). Could the above be a coincidence ? Hardly not !  To fully understand the concept of a Tri-Une Elohim (which is complex to grasp), it is essential to distinguish between the earthly (temporality) and the heavenly (eternity). In his divine nature, Elohim will bear different names according to his functions: in his creative power, he is called Yahweh, the Father; in the work of Salvation, he is called Yahweh, the Son; and in the gift of power, he is called Yahweh, the Spirit. We are dealing with a single Elohim who manifests himself in different ways through : - The Father => omniscience (cf. Matthew 24.36; Mark 13.32) => the initiator of all action => the planner - The Son => the advocate (cf. 1 John 2.7) and mediator (cf. 1 Timothy 2.5) => the model of all things (cf. 1 John 2.7) => the righteous Judge (cf. 2 Timothy 4.8; Psalm 7.11; 9.4; Jeremiah 11.20) => the Messiah (cf. John 1.41; 4.25) - The Spirit => the Comforter (cf. John 14:26) => the Guide (cf. Romans 8:14; Galatians 5:16,25) => the Regenerator (cf. John 3:3-8). Hope this shades lights! Sorry for this long post! Be blessed! FX |
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FX
Junior Member
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Posts: 95
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Post by FX on Apr 22, 2024 5:15:07 GMT
A few more thoughts..
There are three relationships in God - 1) Fatherhood (through the Father); 2) Sonship (through the Son) and 3) Spiration (through the Holy Spirit) - in love, sharing and cooperation.
The Scriptures affirm that God is love (cf. 1 John 4.8). God is love because God is a tri-unity. And God is a tri-unity because he is love!
The Sh’ma actually sheds a light on the concept of a tri-une Elohim :
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
It’s all about love !
1 John 4.8 declares that "God is love".
Love requires union and communion with like-minded beings. But why is God love? God is love because Yahweh is a tri-unity. And Yahweh is a tri-unity because he is love!
Love requires a relationship of otherness: there must be an other. If Yahweh is ehad/one and if he is love, he must have a relationship with someone. With angels, with men? If God's love rests on a necessary relationship, then that means he depends on others to be love. That's not possible! God's love does not depend on creation, for God is self-sufficient. If Yahweh depended on angels or men to love, he would no longer be self-sufficient, he would not be God, he would not be perfect. For God to be perfect, there must be more than one person in him. There must be three consciousnesses in a single being. Why 3 and not 4 or 5? Because love implies two things:
1- sharing. Without sharing, love is not possible. There must be a giver and a receiver. But if there are only two people, there's a risk of complacency and autarkic confinement.
2- Love requires cooperation: two people cooperating with a third (e.g. parents who love their child). If there are more than three people, there will be groups and clans. Full love requires at least three people. God does not manifest love. He is love! If Yahweh wasn't love, we couldn't love him. God manifests Himself fully in His plan.
We also clearly see the Tri-unity is the Araonic blessing :
The LORD bless you and keep you;
the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you;
the LORD turn his face toward youand give you peace.” ’
The blessing of the priests over the sons of Israel consists of three blessings:
Verse 24: Yahweh, the Father, the source of all blessing (cf. Ephesians 1.3, Hebrews 10.7).
Verse 25: Yahweh, the Son, the channel of every blessing (cf. Ephesians 1:3, Acts 3:26, Hebrews 10:10).
Verse 26: Yahweh, the Spirit, the witness of every blessing (cf. Hebrews 10:7,10,15).
Be blessed, my friends,
FX
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Trinity
Apr 22, 2024 5:24:29 GMT
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Post by gentlespirit18 on Apr 22, 2024 5:24:29 GMT
A few more thoughts.. There are three relationships in God - 1) Fatherhood (through the Father); 2) Sonship (through the Son) and 3) Spiration (through the Holy Spirit) - in love, sharing and cooperation. The Scriptures affirm that God is love (cf. 1 John 4.8). God is love because God is a tri-unity. And God is a tri-unity because he is love! The Sh’ma actually sheds a light on the concept of a tri-une Elohim : Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. It’s all about love ! 1 John 4.8 declares that "God is love". Love requires union and communion with like-minded beings. But why is God love? God is love because Yahweh is a tri-unity. And Yahweh is a tri-unity because he is love! Love requires a relationship of otherness: there must be an other. If Yahweh is ehad/one and if he is love, he must have a relationship with someone. With angels, with men? If God's love rests on a necessary relationship, then that means he depends on others to be love. That's not possible! God's love does not depend on creation, for God is self-sufficient. If Yahweh depended on angels or men to love, he would no longer be self-sufficient, he would not be God, he would not be perfect. For God to be perfect, there must be more than one person in him. There must be three consciousnesses in a single being. Why 3 and not 4 or 5? Because love implies two things: 1- sharing. Without sharing, love is not possible. There must be a giver and a receiver. But if there are only two people, there's a risk of complacency and autarkic confinement. 2- Love requires cooperation: two people cooperating with a third (e.g. parents who love their child). If there are more than three people, there will be groups and clans. Full love requires at least three people. God does not manifest love. He is love! If Yahweh wasn't love, we couldn't love him. God manifests Himself fully in His plan. We also clearly see the Tri-unity is the Araonic blessing : The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward youand give you peace.” ’ The blessing of the priests over the sons of Israel consists of three blessings: Verse 24: Yahweh, the Father, the source of all blessing (cf. Ephesians 1.3, Hebrews 10.7). Verse 25: Yahweh, the Son, the channel of every blessing (cf. Ephesians 1:3, Acts 3:26, Hebrews 10:10). Verse 26: Yahweh, the Spirit, the witness of every blessing (cf. Hebrews 10:7,10,15). Be blessed, my friends, FX Francois is that you? |
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Trinity
Apr 22, 2024 6:30:19 GMT
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Post by midnightwatcher on Apr 22, 2024 6:30:19 GMT
Thank you FX, very interesting Genesis insights regarding the 4000 and 6000 Aleph Tav connection! And yes, I agree fully as you know, Yahweh is Echad (a unified One) and that there is only one God. The concept of the "Trinity" has always been monotheistic and rejects the Greek concepts of multiple distinct deities or demi-gods, as well as Modalism. Some may be inclined to conflate three distinct persons as distinct deities (as Muslims love to do, claiming that the Trinity is "tritheistic") but they are mistaken to do so. The doctrine of the Trinity is strictly monotheistic.
I like "Tri-Unity" as well if the truncated word "Trinity" is confusing for some. Admittedly, the "Tri-Unity" nature of God isn't the easiest concept to wrap our minds around. After all, our minds are finite and could never fully comprehend an infinite God. But what we cannot fully comprehend we can at least apprehend, and though no analogy is perfect I do like to use the analogy above of the star to help explain Yahweh's "Tri-Unity" in a way that is easier for some to apprehend:
The Father is like the flame, whose glory is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29).
The Son is like the light, for to follow Him is to never walk in darkness (John 8:12).
The Holy Spirit is like the heat, whose warmth draws us to the Light (John 6:44, 15:26).
Although the star's flame, the star's light and the star's heat are each distinct, they all work together to sustain life on this planet -- which only orbits one sun.
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FX
Junior Member
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Posts: 95
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Post by FX on Apr 22, 2024 17:34:15 GMT
Hi gentlespirit18 Good quess! Do we know each other from the old forum? Hi Midnightwatcher, Yes, enlightning analogy!  Blessings, FX |
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Post by gentlespirit18 on Apr 23, 2024 1:09:12 GMT
Hi gentlespirit18 Good quess! Do we know each other from the old forum? Hi Midnightwatcher, Yes, enlightning analogy! Blessings, FX we had good discussions about Turkey and Erodogan |
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FX
Junior Member
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Posts: 95
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Post by FX on Apr 23, 2024 6:55:40 GMT
Hi Gentlespirit, I remember! We'll probably have more in the 3 years to come! Be blessed! |
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Trinity
Jun 11, 2024 20:33:42 GMT
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Post by briankmartens on Jun 11, 2024 20:33:42 GMT
Thank you Messiah2030team team. I am recently awake to our Marvellous creator's works and leading. And thank you for all your videos. I have been having a hard time on this Trinity issue and would love your imput on this. Is there a third person or not? Is it just YWYH and Yeshua? I have been in study for the past 2 years on this with my group. Half of them agree that the Holy Spirit is a third person of the God head and our our salvation is sealed by Him. The other half does not believe as Trinity spans from catholicism and have created a third entity. This group believes we are sealed by Yeshua himself. There is also a divide on the name of YHWH as to whether its important or not because apparently YHWH has many names as referenced in scripture. The scripture arguments are quite strong and at my growth level, I can only depend on YWYH to lead me. Your input will be highly appreciated. Thank you |
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