mark
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Post by mark on Jul 24, 2024 3:27:07 GMT
Revelation Chapter 14 gives us a great overview of the order in which certain events of the Great Tribulation take place. In Revelation Chapter 14, we see the hour of God's judgement. The Gospel goes out, then Mystery Babylon destroyed, then the beast empire, then two harvests; one of which I believe is the "rapture." I'd like to hear more about Mystery Babylon, since I personally believe she is America/ the West.
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josie
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Post by josie on Aug 14, 2024 6:58:46 GMT
Mystery Babylon could be Israel and the New World Order also known as the cabal or the deep state. The Jewish/Talmudic New World Order that the world is gradually waking up to is a creation of Babylon, the harlot, and is ultimately destined for destruction. The exposure of the merchants of Mystery Babylon, such as the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers, is key in leading people to believe they must wage war against the Jews to liberate the planet from the New World Order. This rising hostility is paving the way for a future crusade against Jerusalem and the Jewish people, reminiscent of the destruction of 70 A.D., the rise of Hitler, and the persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes -- the Beast typologies and shadows. The beast—a coalition of Gentile nations—will rise up not to support this global order but to overthrow it, as part of God’s sovereign plan. (Revelation 17:16-17) The beast’s destruction of the harlot, apostate Jerusalem, symbolizes the end of the New World Order and the beginning of a counterfeit kingdom of God, which the beast will establish, deceiving many into believing it is the true kingdom of God. Someone called Donnie Discerned has great insight on this on his Twitter account: x.com/DonnieDarkened. He writes: " What’s coming isn't the culmination of the Globalist New World Order agenda. That’s the obvious enemy the world will awaken to and rise up against. What’s truly on the horizon is an unholy, false light, reactionary, multi-faith, over-zealous, misguided unity of humanity against it. Driven by fear of losing their worldly control, they will even kill the faithful, believing they are doing God’s will, just as warned in John 16:2. I believe this “great awakening” will gradually unveil the ruling Zionist Jews as the source of crimes against humanity, leading to a misguided holy war against Israel under the guise of liberating humanity. This is prophesied in Zechariah 14, where God raises up the gentile nations to serve as instruments of judgment against Jerusalem for her wickedness and rebellion. Just as He used pagan gentile nations like Rome, Assyria, and Babylon to besiege and attack Jerusalem in judgment, He will do so again. " |
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FX
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Post by FX on Aug 14, 2024 14:33:01 GMT
Bonjour,
This is what a lot of deceived people believe not realizing that they are propagating antisemite lies. Neither Yeshua, nor Scripture present the Jews (1/12th of Israel) as being behind all the evil in this world and operate behind the curtains to impose a worldwide domination. This scenario comes straight from the minds of people controlled by Ha satan!
We just have to look at the news to see the hatred from the likes of Muslims and leftists who promote the very same ideas and this is precisely why they want to annihilate the Jews and they will.
Have you ever heard about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an anti-Semitic text that purports to describe a Jewish conspiracy plan to take over the entire world. The text is said to be based on the minutes of a secret meeting of Jewish leaders who discussed their strategy for manipulating governments, the media and the global economy with a view to world domination. Sounds familiar?
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is widely regarded as a forgery. Researchers have shown that the text was in fact an anti-Semitic fabrication, probably devised by the Tsarist secret police in Russia ( (the Okhrana, in the late 19th century) to discredit Jews and justify persecution against them.
Despite this, it has been used as an anti-Semitic propaganda tool by many groups and individuals throughout history, including Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, to incite hatred and violence against Jews and justify their slaughter. It has been taken up by Muslims to incriminate Israel, and sadly by many Christians, including within Messianic movements.
I’m afraid the above scenario is not found in the Bible!
There is no NWO in the Bible (besides the one Yeshua will establish) and most people are missing the forest for the tree! What is behind the great reset, which is very real (but has nothing to do with the end time biblical scenario which takes place in the Middle East), is Marxism and communism and is currently driven by China and its allies: Russia, Iran, North Korea and many Muslims nations to name just a few!
Are these nations controlled by the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers? Are Xi Jupin and Putin hidden Jews?
Those of believe so are just deceived. This is sad, but it's the truth!
Blessing,
FX
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kolop
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Post by kolop on Aug 14, 2024 15:25:16 GMT
Thank you FX. I agree with what you said. Having said that, I tend do believe all the nations of the world will eventually turn against Israel under the behest of the AC. I understand that the AC along with the false prophet will have much power and control over the nations who will turn violently against Israel. Perhaps I'm wrong and the collective West will not follow the AC but somehow I doubt that. What we are witnessing today is just a prelude. The West is already turning its back to God and following Satan in many ways, and the trend will continue. As for Israel, of course Jesus will return to put a stop to the attempt by the AC to destroy Israel. At least that's how I understand what the Scripture is tell us.
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FX
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Post by FX on Aug 14, 2024 15:58:09 GMT
Hi kolop, IMHO,yes and no!  When we put the Scriptures back into their Hebraic and Middle Eastern contexts, we find out that the very armies that will attack and invade Israel are the Muslim surrounding nations (lead by Turkey), not all the nations of the world. Also, understanding that the AC’s short-lived reign (3,5 years) will be limited to the Middle-East and that his very religion will be Islam, help us have a better view of what to expect next. We can see things clearly building up since the 7th of October. Since there are Muslims in every single nation of the world, it is no wonder why some nations in the world will also turn against Israel. Those that will precisely do are the progressist nations (i.e.: nations run by the left). In the Western world, we can clearly see the alliance between Muslims and the left. They ally together and chant death to Israel. It will take a more serious turn when Israel – or at least Jerusalem - actually falls back into Islam’s dominion. I think this is precisely when all hell will break loose and when Muslims all around the world will wage jihad against infidels. In my understanding the AC and the false prophet are one and the same. The AC will only have power and control over the countries he will invade. We are mainly talking about the Middle East and the Land of Israel. Not the whole world, unless a particular country falls for Islam and Muslim manage to take control, like we are seeing right now in Great Britain (more and more cities are being run by Muslims). Those who will give allegiance and follow the AC are the Muslims in the West. They will wadge jihad. If Muslims manage to subdue and take over, let’s say France, then yes, France will be forced to follow the AC. If the mark of the beast is the allegiance and conversion to Islam, those who do not take the mark will be slaughtered. Agreed! It will worsen. And we haven’t seen anything yet! Wait till KH takes office. This could be the beginning of the end, leading to the invasion of Israel in April 2027. Time will tell. One thing for sure, the next US election will be PARAMOUNT to the future of the world. If the left wins, for me this will be another VERY BIG sign that Messiah 2030 chronology is correct. Again, time will tell! Let's get ready!  Be blessed, FX |
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josie
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Post by josie on Aug 14, 2024 18:23:12 GMT
Hi FX, Donnie says the same thing, that these are anti-semitic lies. I should have posted the entire post, which is:
"
What’s coming isn't the culmination of the Globalist New World Order agenda. That’s the obvious enemy the world will awaken to and rise up against.
What’s truly on the horizon is an unholy, false light, reactionary, multi-faith, over-zealous, misguided unity of humanity against it.
Driven by fear of losing their worldly control, they will even kill the faithful, believing they are doing God’s will, just as warned in John 16:2.
I believe this “great awakening” will gradually unveil the ruling Zionist Jews as the source of crimes against humanity, leading to a misguided holy war against Israel under the guise of liberating humanity.
This is prophesied in Zechariah 14, where God raises up the gentile nations to serve as instruments of judgment against Jerusalem for her wickedness and rebellion.
Just as He used pagan gentile nations like Rome, Assyria, and Babylon to besiege and attack Jerusalem in judgment, He will do so again.
There is nothing new under the sun and what has been will be again. (Ecclesiastes 1:9)
This end times event is also known as Jacob's trouble, prophesied as the final stage in the cycles of judgment on Israel.
"Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones." (Zechariah 13:7)
Israel killed the shepherd, who is Jesus, and God destroyed their temple and scattered them among the nations.
The chapter continues in verses 8-9 about how Jerusalem will be refined by this purifying judgement,
"In the whole land," declares the Lord, "two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it."
"This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The Lord is our God.'"
This is what Jesus was referring to when He prophesies in Matthew 23:36-39:
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
"Look, your house is left to you desolate."
"For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Zechariah 14 immediately describes how God, in His sovereignty, is raising up the nations, hardening their hearts as He once hardened Pharaoh's heart against Jacob.
"A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls."
"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city."
"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle."
"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south." (Zechariah 14:1-4)
Verse 4 is talking about Christ's return, as the faithful remnant in Jerusalem's declaration of Jesus as messiah will trigger the ultimate divine intervention.
This is what the prophet Daniel spoke of in Daniel 12:1:
"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered."
Dr. Michael Heiser, a biblical scholar, discussed the concept of Michael rising to confront Satan in heaven, which shows how earthly conflicts are mirrored by spiritual battles in the heavenly realms.
When the Archangel Michael rises, the siege of Jerusalem will commence, with fallen humanity united against the harlot, apostate Jerusalem as described in Zechariah.
There’s really no other good reason why the entire world would come against Jerusalem to destroy it, as Zechariah 14:2 and other passages describe, other than the united perception that it is the headquarters of the New World Order.
The world wouldn't unite against Israel unless the ruling Zionist Jews are seen as leaders of an international mafia responsible for so many global problems.
Israel's wickedness will have reached such a level that the Lord raises up the beast kingdom to bring judgment upon her.
The remnant is discussed in numerous places throughout the Old Testament and is specifically enumerated in Revelation as the 144,000—12,000 from each tribe—who will repent and call out to the Lord Jesus as Christ Himself prophesied back in Matthew 23.
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness." (Isaiah 10:20-22)
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call." (Joel 2:32)
Revelation 7:1-8 reveals how many of them are saved out of Jacob's trouble (Great tribulation):
"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand."
Now let's talk about the faithful in Christ among the gentiles.
In Revelation 7, two distinct groups are prophesied: the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, who are explicitly numbered, and a separate, uncountable multitude from every nation that cannot be numbered.
This multitude, unlike the 144,000, consists of Gentiles in Christ.
This distinction shows the inclusion of both saved Jews and Gentiles in the prophetic visions of Revelation.
Revelation 7:9-10 reads,
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Those Gentiles who cling to Christ and do not allow their hearts to harden or grow cold will be among the multitudes that are saved.
These are the very ones included in the vast, uncountable group described in Revelation 7.
That's why when speaking of the last days in Matthew 24:12-13 Christ warns,
"Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,"
"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
This implies that the gentiles who harden their hearts, despite Christ's commands, are the modern equivalents of the Egyptians, Canaanites, and Babylonians in the Bible—tools used in God's grand plan to save Israel, who have rebelled against Him and allowed the land to become a 'city of evil' as described in Revelation 18.
According to 1 Timothy 2:4, God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
However, by rejecting Jesus as the Messiah, Israel has prompted God to use the gentiles (the rest of the world) to rise in judgment against Jerusalem so that they might turn from their wicked ways, repent of their sin, and return to God.
Again, The Great Awakening is ultimately leading to an unholy, multi-faith, gentile alliance and counterfeit 'revelation'—a disclosure of information that unveils a small clique of child-molesting, world-stealing, war-mongering megalomaniacs, which are the merchants of Mystery Babylon (Apostate Jerusalem) that will weep upon her fall. (Revelation 18:9-11)
This revelation rallies a range of lesser evils to briefly unite in a righteous fervor against those who, like the Pharisee in Luke 18, pridefully thank God they are not like "those other people," all the while ignoring the sin in their own hearts.
A coalition like that won't last for long but, because Satan only has a short time, it doesn't really need to.
We are on the brink of witnessing the most significant event in human history, the culmination of all that has been building since the beginning.
Ultimately, there are only two sides: those who follow God, submitting and fearing Him alone, and those who follow the world and their flesh, fearing worldly things and following their wicked hearts.
I too was deceived by this for many years; it is indeed a powerful delusion.
Tribulation signifies testing, and our Sovereign God is allowing these events to unfold to both preserve His faithful remnant in Jerusalem and to test the hearts of those who claim to follow Him.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Revelation 14:12)
Followers of Christ who remain steadfast in their faith and do not join this false light rebellion will be labeled as traitors to humanity.
They will face severe persecution, being betrayed and even put to death by their neighbors, loved ones, and communities.
Like i said earlier, John 16:2 says that they will kill the saints, believing they are carrying out God's will, revealing the tragic irony of the delusion that ensnares the wicked in the last days.
If you, like me, have been deceived by this powerful deception, it might indicate unresolved sin or rebellion in your life that you haven't repented of.
In this case, it could be that God is using this as a form of judgment, hardening your heart, as we see Him do all throughout scripture.
You might be serving not as a vessel of His mercy, but as an instrument of His wrath, intended to give rise to the beast kingdom, and purify and prepare Jerusalem for Christ's return and His Millennial Kingdom.
I understand this is a lot to take in, and there's likely a significant amount of "deprogramming" and cognitive dissonance that I've experienced, which you may also need to navigate.
Remember, there’s a reason Matthew 7 states that the path to life is narrow and few find it, and why numerous passages in scripture warn that the whole world will be deceived in the last days, even the elect, if possible. (Matthew 24:24)
As followers of Christ, winning and losing isn't about worldly victories or defeats, but about overcoming the flesh by the Spirit.
The great irony is that the misguided zeal and worldly fear of the world that will actually pave the way for the kingdom of the beast.
But our battle isn't the world's battle.
Those who align themselves with the world, sharing its fears and anxieties, will ultimately face the same judgment.
“For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:4-5)
“For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.” (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
Again, i understand this is a lot for most people, but please, read this as many times as you have to and pray on this; remember God's sovereignty and find peace in following His commands.
"Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." (John 14:24)
God bless you all.
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FX
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Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
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Post by FX on Aug 14, 2024 19:46:13 GMT
Shalom Josie, There is no ruling Zionist Jews. This is propaganda lies from the antisemites. Yah sure will Indeed! But contrary to the Pop Christianity fairytale, the nations that will come against Jerusalem at the beginning of the great tribulation WILL NOT be every single nation of the world but the surrounding Muslim nations lead by Turkey (Iran will be part of the coalition too). Actually, the shepherd gave his life voluntarily. Which nations? The Scriptures give us the answer: Zechariah 14:14, “Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the SURROUNDING NATIONS will be gathered…Zechariah 12:2, “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends a ll the SURROUNDING PEOPLES… Joel 3:11-12, “Hasten and come, all you SURROUNDING NATIONS, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the SURROUNDING NATIONS.” Ezekiel 28:24-26, “‘No longer will the people of Israel have malicious NEIGHBORS who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD. ” ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their NEIGHBORS WHO MALIGNED AGAINST THEM. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.'” It’s not fallen humanity, it’s the surrounding Muslim nations! You’re also mistaken regarding the identity of the harlot… You should look toward the direction of Mecca, not Jerusalem, the city of our King. The New Covenant is not made with Gentiles but with the following two entities: the House of Israel (the 10 non-Jewish tribes) and the House of Judah (Juda, that is the Jews, Benjamin and some Levite. These are not Jewish per se since they do not come from the tribe of Judah, but since they belonged to the House of Juda, they are identified as Jews as well). When a person is born again, he is grafter upon Israel, whether he is a Jew or a non-Jew. The 144000 are actually believers from all nations! If you want to find more: Mystery Babylon cannot be Apostate Jerusalem! Think about it...Revelation 18:8, 18.18 and 19:3 describe the judgment, destruction, and eternal burning of "Mystery Babylon. The destruction of Mystery Babylon will be eternal, with its smoke rising forever. Since Yeshua will rule the world from Jerusalem during the millennium, Mystery Babylon cannot be Jerusalem. The above verses show that this is impossible, unless Yeshua rules the world from a burning city! Looks like some of your understandings still need to be strengthened up … Be blessed! FX |
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josie
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Post by josie on Aug 14, 2024 20:57:02 GMT
Having read Revelation 18:8, 18.18 and 19:3, I now see how Mystery Babylon cannot be apostate Jerusalem!
Thank you FX for this explanation. May God bless you.
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FX
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Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
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Post by FX on Aug 15, 2024 4:47:25 GMT
May Abba Yahweh bless you too, Rosie, and may we grow to be useful vessels in His hands to awaken our fellow brethren.
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth (3 John 1.4).
Shalom shalom,
FX
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kolop
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Post by kolop on Aug 15, 2024 22:16:54 GMT
Hi FX,
No, the Scriptures are clear that the AC and false prophet are not the same. For example, the beast (antichrist) and false prophet will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 19:20) immediately after the tribulation. Satan too but not until after the millennium. Much of the world not just Muslims will follow the AC. Revelation 13:5-8 states that the beast (antichrist) will utter proud words and blasphemies to exercise his authority for forty-two months, and he will be given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation, and as such all inhabitants of the earth whose names are not written in the book of life will worship the AC. |
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FX
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Post by FX on Aug 16, 2024 5:51:41 GMT
Hi Kolop, This is what is commonly taught, indeed. But a closer look may present a different picture. The main argument to differentiate the AC from the false prophet goes like this: 1- The first beast rising from the sea is the AC 2- The second beast rising from the earth is the false prophet. Let’s have a closer look! 1- The first beast rises from the sea. In the allegorical language of Scripture, the sea symbolizes a multitude of nations and peoples. The sea and the waters symbolize ethnic groups (Daniel 7:2; Jeremiah 51:41-42; Ezekiel 26:3; Revelation 17:1,15). In other words, this beast arises from a multitude of nations. Daniel 7 uses a similar expression to describe the appearance of the four beasts. The four empires “came out of the sea”. Many argue that the “beast coming out of the sea” is a man, the antichrist. But this does not seem to be the case here, if we let the Bible interpret itself. Here, the beast represents a kingdom composed of a multitude of men. The text says, it is like a leopard (Yavan), has feet like a bear (Medo-Persia) and a mouth like a lion (Babylon). This beast thus appears to be a conglomeration of the empires described in Daniel 7 and represents an empire and not the antichrist as most teach. The book of Daniel reveals that the antichrist is a little horn (Daniel 7.7) that will arise from ten horns borne by the fourth beast - the final empire. Daniel also reveals that the ten horns are ten kings (Daniel 7.24). The Book of Revelation speaks of a first beast rising from the sea, with ten horns (Revelation 13.1). These ten horns are ten kings (Revelation 17.12). By analogy with the verses of Daniel 7.7-8, 7.24, the first beast described here seems to represent the last empire, and its ten horns, ten kings. From one of these ten horns, a “little horn” will emerge, with authority over the other horns. Clearly, the antichrist is not “the beast rising from the sea”. He is one of the ten horns of that animal. 2- The second beast rises from the earth… “Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed” Here, the beast rises from the earth. This is a prophetic allegory, indicating that this beast will rise from among men. Man is created from the earth and will return to the earth (Genesis 2.7, 3.17). The first beast represents a kingdom; here we are most likely dealing with the figure who will be at the head of this kingdom, i.e. either the antichrist or Satan himself. This man or spirit will have two lamb-like horns. He wants to present himself as the Lamb of God/Messiah, as the savior - but he will be the anti Messiah. The horn symbolizes power and royalty. The two horns could symbolize the reign of this man or spirit over the Sunni and Shiite world. If so, this second beast (if we're dealing with a man) could very well be the long-awaited “saviour” of the Muslim world - the Mahdi (also known as the “twelfth Imam”) of the final, risen Caliph. This second beast speaks like the dragon. Like the antichrist, the “little horn” described in Daniel 7.8, the second beast will have great arrogance and will speak “like the dragon”. Daniel 7.8: “I looked at the horns, and behold, another little horn came out from among them, and three of the first horns were plucked up before this horn; and behold, it had eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth, which spoke with arrogance”. The antichrist will be inhabited by the devil/dragon. And will speak like him. Does it make sense? It looks like we actually have: 1- A Kingdom (the first beast rising from the sea) = The Islamic kingdom or the oumma (the community of Muslim believers) or Islam 2- A man (or a spirit) (the second beast rising from the earth) = the antichrist who will rule the Islamic kingdom or the oumma. The second beast (the antichrist) and the false prophet have the same role, as everything points to the false prophet = the antichrist. Also note that the AT speaks about "one main character the "bad guy" in the end times, not two. If so, then what about Revelation 19.20? "But the beast [the first beast] was captured, and with it the false prophet [the second beast/antichrist] who had performed the signs on its behalf [the first beast]. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Here, the beast = Islam. The antichrist = the false prophet = the second beast coming out of the earth with “two horns like a lamb and speaking like a dragon” (Revelation 13.11). The antichrist is the dragon disguised as a lamb. Just as death and Sheol will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20.14), so Islam and the antichrist are thrown into the lake of fire, where Satan, the dragon, will join them (Revelation 20.10). And you may ask: what about Revelation 16.13? “Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet”. It's quite possible that in this passage, we're dealing with the following three entities: “Allah” (the dragon, Satan who gives authority to the beast kingdom), the kingdom itself (the beast, the multitude of believers) and their “false prophet” (Mohammed). In Revelation 13; 16.13 and 20.10, a trio is mentioned, a kind of anti-tri-unity: Revelation 13 => 1) the dragon, 2) the beast (of the sea) and 3) the beast (of the earth). Revelation 16 => 1) the dragon, 2) the beast and 3) the false prophet. Revelation 20 => 1) the devil, 2) the beast and 3) the false prophet. The equation that seems the most logical to me could be the following: The dragon = the devil, Satan. The beast = depending on the context: either a system (Islam) or a kingdom. The false prophet (the beast of the earth) = the antichrist (and in some cases, Mohammed). This satanic trinity will be defeated in two stages: 1) first the two beasts (the antichrist and his kingdom) in the Valley of Megiddo (Revelation 16.12-16), 2) then Satan at the end of the millennium (cf. Revelation 20.7-10). Does it make sense? This is what the pop Christianity teaches. Question is: is it true? Here are three arguments to consider: 1- Many believe that the kingdom of the beast will be global, extending over all the nations of the world. However, when we look more closely at the text, the expression “every tribe, people, tongue, and nation, and all the inhabitants of the earth” is immediately limited and refers only to “those whose names have not been written... in the book of life”. The expression “every tribe, tongue, and nation” is a hyperbole found in several passages of Scripture. The Septuagint translation of Daniel 5:18-19 uses exactly the same words as those used in the Greek version of Revelation 13:7-8. Daniel uses the words laos, phulé, and glóssa, while John uses the words laos, phulé, glóssa, and ethnos. If we interpret Daniel's passage without taking the hyperbole into account, then we effectively come to the conclusion that all the inhabitants of the earth feared King Nebuchadnezzar. However, we know that this was not the case, as history and common sense demonstrate. Here, not all the inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast, but a multitude from many nations. More precisely, it will be those “whose names have not been written in the Book of Life.” 2- “Authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language and nation”. The Greek translation uses the word epi, “over”. This word can also mean “in”, “within”, or “among”. We can therefore read the verse as follows: “He was given authority within or among every tribe, people, language and nation”. If Islam is indeed the religion of the antichrist, then those who give allegiance to the kingdom of the beast will come from virtually every country in the world. We had an example of this with the self-proclaimed caliphate of Daech (Isis) from 2014 to 2019: thousands of Muslims from all over the world pledged allegiance to the Caliph and joined his ranks. The domination of the beast's kingdom will not affect all the world's governments, but the beast will have authority and strong influence over a large number of people within all the nations of the world. So the beast won't literally rule over all the nations of the world, but it will have a certain authority within each nation. 3- When it comes to the beast kingdom, the words used in Greek are ge or oikoumene. These two words can mean “the whole world” or “all the inhabitants of the earth”, but they can also simply mean “the country” or speak of a “specific region”. It all depends on the context. In other words, the only word that could remove all doubts about the beast kingdom is the word kosmos, which refers to the whole globe. Yet this word is used only to refer to the reign of Yeshua. The scope of the words used to describe the authority of the beast in Revelation shows a limited authority. When the Scriptures mention the coming of the antichrist, they repeatedly speak of a short reign (three and a half years). The antichrist will try to extend his power over the whole earth, but all indications are that he will never succeed. Other passages of Scripture point to a limited reign of the antichrist, most likely confined to the Middle East. Hope this helps. Be blessed! FX |
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kolop
New Member
Posts: 26
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Post by kolop on Aug 16, 2024 13:56:16 GMT
Hi FX,
Of course it is true. After all, many non-Muslims are already following Satan. When the AC appears on the scene, many will fall over each other to accept him as well. The scene is already being set. More and more people, especially Westerners are rejecting God and becoming worshippers of Satan, even if they are not admitting it openly then certainly in their hearts, mind and soul. Worshipping the AC would be automatic for them when he arrives. Muslims, other religious groups and atheists too will follow suit. As for Revelation 13:7, it clearly states the AC will be granted authority over all tongues and nations, which implies a one world authoritarian order or government of sorts. It doesn't mean he will be granted authority over every single individual because some people will refuse his authority and if necessary die for their faith in Christ and so become martyrs. In fact, if that were not true then Salvation would be denied to all, which of course is impossible. |
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FX
Junior Member
Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Posts: 95
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Post by FX on Aug 16, 2024 14:25:31 GMT
Hi Kolop Daniel 5.18-19 states: “Your Majesty, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. 19Because of the high position he gave him, all the nations and peoples of every language dreaded and feared him. Let me ask you a question: Did every single inhabitant of the earth feared King Nebuchadnezzar, including Indians from America, Chinese from China and Eskimos from Greenland? If we follow your logic, we are forced to answer “yes, this is what the Bible says!” Now, if we take into account the use of hyperboles, History and common sense, then the correct answer to the above question is : “no, only the inhabitant under King Nebuchadnezzar feared him”. And we know that King Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom was limited to a few Middle-Eastern countries. It will be exactly the same for the antichrist. Those who wait for a figure to rise up, create a brand-new religion, subdue the whole world and be adored as God by every single inhabitant of the world must learn to be very patient. It’s like waiting for the pre-trip rapture bus, not knowing it will never show-up!  Shabbat shalom! |
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kolop
New Member
Posts: 26
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Post by kolop on Aug 16, 2024 20:26:32 GMT
Hi FX,
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I take the Scriptures as they are without alteration, conflation or confusion. What they say must be the Truth. What I've said doesn't disagree with those verses I've quoted from Scripture. It's that simple. Good bye.
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Post by Oro y Plata on Aug 17, 2024 16:59:45 GMT
Hello kolop,
Here is a question for you.
Scripture says that when Messiah returns, the beast and false prophet will be defeated and those who received the MOTB and worshipped the beast will be killed.
[Rev 19:20-21 NKJV] 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Well according to how one interprets Revelation 13, that would include everyone outside of the faith, correct?
[Rev 13:7-8 NKJV] 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So it appears during the 3.5-year great tribulation there will only be two categories of people - those who are deceived and worship the image of the beast, and those who keep the testimony of the Lamb.
But wait, Scripture speaks of those left after the great day of the Lord's return and what they will do when Messiah establishes His kingdom over earth.
[Zec 14:16-21 NKJV] 16 And it shall come to pass [that] everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be [that] whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they [shall have] no [rain]; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 20 In that day "HOLINESS TO THE LORD" shall be [engraved] on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
So who are these that are left?
Are they those deceived by the beast and received his mark? Perhaps not, according to Rev 19 these are to be killed at the Lamb's return.
Are they those in the faith who survive the 3.5-year great tribulation? Not likely, as Scripture already addresses that. Those in the faith (asleep and alive) will be gathered at the Lamb's return (Mat 24). According to Messiah 2030 Project, we will then enter the bridal chambers (Isa 26:20-21) during the time the Bowls (wrath) are poured and after which enter the land (Rev 20:4) and reign with Messiah (Rev 5:10). I will say this, however, that during the MK, "the land" may encompass an area much greater than Judea including even the whole earth and those who partook in the first resurrection may settle in many places over earth prior to all things being dissolved and made new again. So while I don't entirely rule out the possibility that Zec 14 includes those who partook in the first resurrection I think a better explanation is that they are the survivors who did not worship the beast but were also outside of the faith during the reign of the beast.
Does this mean not all outside the faith will worship the beast? I will leave that for you to study, think, and pray on.
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